E128: Under the Hood with Matt Baack Part 1 – Transitioning from B2B to B2C

In today's supply chain, manufacturers often get the thinnest slice of the margin pie. With customers shopping globally and demanding better pricing, retailers compress margins to stay afloat, which puts pressure on their distributors, which in turn passes the pressure along to manufacturers. With margins squeezed the hardest, it's no wonder manufacturers are looking beyond the traditional supply chain and want to reach out to customers directly, capturing profits that their distributors and retailers make.

This is the case with today's Under the Hood episode guest. Matt Baack sells wine thermals, beer chillers, and other house ware accessories made of concrete. He used to operate solely as a B2B manufacturer, but has now begun selling direct to consumers via his online site, Angle 33. Matt makes a good profit margin in the B2C area and wants to transition completely to B2C.

In this episode we talk about how he can make this transition as smooth as possible. We look at the low-hanging fruit–the options that can move the needle as fast as possible without spending a ton of money. For Part 1 of our conversation, we talk about the following, among others:

• How he started on ecommerce
• His awesome products
• How much of his business is in the B2C area, and what his margins look like
• Using Amazon as the first step to scale more of his business to B2C
• Getting the help of influencers to promote his products
• Other channels that are perfect for his brand

This is just Part 1. We get to more of this in Part 2 which is coming out next week, so stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, if you are looking for awesome, totally unique wine thermals, coasters or beer chillers, head over to Angle 33. I can already think of a couple of people in my life who would love his products.

Resources mentioned:

MyEcomCrew
Angle 33
Jungle Scout
Famebit
Houzz

Thanks for listening to this episode. If you want to be featured on your own episode and get free business advice from us, just sign up here. Until next week, happy selling!

Full Audio Transcript

Mike: This is Mike and Welcome to episode number 128 of the EcomCrew Podcast. You can go to EcomCrew.com/128 to get to the show notes for this episode. Leave us any comments you might have. And today we are back with another Under the Hood segment, so excited to have Matt on the show with us today. I’m going to be doing a deep dive about his business, and giving him some suggestions. This one will be broken up into two parts. Today will be part one and we'll do part two later this week or next week, so excited to have you guys here today recording with our new podcast microphone, which is really cool.

Hopefully you guys can hear the difference here, but you'll definitely hear some differences in audio between this track and some of the other things that we recorded earlier. But we'll get all that stuff worked out in the future. I want to thank you guys again for supporting the EcomCrew Podcast. We hope you enjoy this episode of Under the Hood. We'll talk to you on the other side of this break.

Mike: Hey Matt, welcome to the podcast, sir.

Matt: Oh, thanks for having me Mike.

Mike: No problem. So, just to give everybody just a quick overview of what we're doing here. This is the Under the Hood segment on EcomCrew where we interview podcast listeners, and get to know a little bit about them and then try to give them actionable advice for their business. And so it's something that we've been doing here now for a few weeks. This is I think the third or fourth one we’ve recorded. And I'm definitely looking forward to learning more about you Matt and your business, and hopefully given you a bunch of takeaways.

Matt: Yeah, I'm pretty excited to chat about it.

Mike: Awesome. So the first question I've been asking everyone, because this is just a personal thing, but I'm curious, how did you get into e-commerce?

Matt: That's a good question. Well, we started out here in Missoula as a concrete countertop company, and we still do that. But I've always wanted to make shippable concrete items. And so we, over the past six years, we've just been working on figuring out a way to get our kind of artistic side to more people in the nation I guess than just here in Missoula.

Mike: Got you. It seems like it's going to be big and heavy without even getting into all the details.

Matt: Yeah, the initial ones weighed so much that yeah it wouldn't have been an option.

Mike: Crazy. So for the six year period, you've been selling online for the last six years, or you started selling to consumers six years ago and got an e-commerce a bit later than that?

Matt: We had an online store very minimal when we first started out and still, it's not anything to write home about yet. But we’ve focused more on wholesale for the last six years. And so our website has kind of been secondary to be honest. Not because I necessarily wanted it that way. It just seemed like it was a good way for us to get our product in front of wineries and restaurants where they were a little bit more, I guess the industry standard, they would like to find us there.

Mike: Got you. Okay excellent, it makes sense. And so, I mean, is the objective here to start taking ecommerce more seriously or you already have or where are you kind of like in that timeline?

Matt: Yes. We're very much in the 2018. We're trying to really transition. I'd love by the end of the year to transition totally over to e-commerce. I don't know if that's totally doable. But my goal is to really work on it and try and do a lot more direct to consumer versus B2B.

Mike: And in terms of revenue split, like how much of your business right now is B2C versus B2B?

Matt: B2B is about 80% of our business right now.

Mike: And then like 2017, what was your revenue on the e-commerce side on the B2C side?

Matt: On the B2C side we were, I believe just over 30, around 30,000.

Mike: And as far as like net margins, like I mean how much room do you have for advertising and stuff on the 30k that you did on the B2C side after shipping and fees and manufacturing everything else. Like what do you expect to take home there?

Matt: So we have 10 to 15 different products, but generally speaking, we're looking at between 65 and 80% margin.

Mike: Okay. So I mean on the 30k you're looking at taking home basically 21,000?

Matt: Yeah 20.

Mike: Really, really high margin there.

Matt: Somewhere in that range yeah.

Mike: Awesome, excellent. So and as far as employees and all that, I mean, is this business your full time thing or do you guys do other things, or you said you mentioned like residential countertops and all that. Are you still doing all those things as well?

Matt: We do. It's a separate company, but still I run both of them. So we still have our shop that we currently are in would still be our countertops and one part to the shop, and then all of our Angle 33 wine chillers and coasters all in another section of the shop. But it's all together.  

Mike: Okay. So I mean, how many people — do you have anyone else that can help you that you could devote to working on the e-commerce stuff? Or would it just basically be you?

Matt: It's basically going to be me. We have two full-time employees, one that works one full time shop employee, and then I have one employee that does most of our marketing and that kind of stuff, but not as much on the, I wouldn't say e-commerce side. It's, she's been focused on wholesale.

Mike: Okay, got you. Cool. And then you already mentioned your website, you were kind enough. A lot of people don't like sharing their website, but we definitely appreciate you doing that. And so if anybody wants to go to Angle33.com and check out what Matt's doing over there, maybe by some wine cooler or holders from him or something like that, help other business owners. That would be awesome. It definitely looks like a cool product. I’m going to check that out myself as well.

So I'm just kind of looking at some of the products here. I'm curious about a few other things. Just real quick, I mean looking at one of these beer holders or wine holders here that holds four bottles and so it’s made of concrete. I'm curious like what does that thing weigh?

Matt: That weighs about eight and a half pounds.

Mike: Okay eight and a half pounds. So it's not completely prohibited as far as shipping weights and things like that.

Matt: No, it's not, and as you probably know, with shipping it's all about the quantity. I mean, to ship five pounds, it costs us the same as it does ten. So, and until we get up into those, we send those generally wholesale via six pack. And at that point they get down to $2 a piece.

Mike: Got You. And I'm just curious, I know a little bit about concrete and construction. Are these delicate, do they crack in shipping or do they hold up pretty well?

Matt: Initially when we first launched, we were trying out different shipping methods with bubble wrap and all that. We had some serious carnage in the first probably two months. So we did spend a lot of time figuring out the packaging. We haven't had a shipped thermal in I think four years.

Mike: Excellent. That's good to hear.

Matt: They are good, and it's a type of concrete that is made to be quite thin and it has a very high strength. So they don't chip very easy.

Mike: Okay, excellent. All right, I think I have enough to kind of get some basic thoughts and ideas here. It's a tough spot to be in, right? Because I mean you don't necessarily have like a lot of money necessarily to throw at this because you're just getting started. It's just a one man show. So it's like basically what can you do at the lowest hanging fruit? That's a term that gets used too much I guess, but I guess it's there for a reason. Like, so I mean what can you do to kind of move the needle as quickly as possible without spending a ton of money? So that's kind of the angle I'm going to take with this.

The first thing that would come to mind because I saw in the notes here that Abbey had taken, that you're not on Amazon. To me that would be one of the first places I would start. There's just so many, it's something like a 50 to 55 or 60% of all e-commerce searches now start on Amazon.com. So they're just a huge audience there that's looking for something like this, right? It's like wine cooler, or whatever the search term would be for this type of product. Because it's like people aren't going to be typing in concrete wine holder or wine cooler holder or whatever wine chiller or whatever the term is because that's not something people are thinking to look for.

So it's very difficult to self educate a market, right? But you're lucky in the fact that the product has another search term that would kind of be related to it. I guess it would be like the wine chiller will be basically what it's called. So I think getting on Amazon would be like the first thing I would do, and especially as a small operation, and target people that are looking for wine chillers. And you can even get that into FBA because they're going to not even necessarily be oversized items.

That doesn't look like the thing's going to be over 18 inches long. And efficiently ship them and target people that are looking for these products. It seems to me to be a first step. So I'm curious, have you ever tried selling on Amazon? Do you have anything against that or questions you might have about getting started over there?

Matt: We have not tried selling on Amazon. And I would say that I don't have any reservations about it at all. Maybe initially the one was I was concerned about it possibly competing with our website. But at this point, to be honest, looking where we're at and where we're trying to go, any websites via e-commerce, I would think would benefit us.

Mike: Yeah. So that whole cannibalization concern is something I definitely understand. It's something that I've gone back and forth myself. We've talked about that a lot actually on this podcast in the past. And as a brand myself now, I just have kind of come to terms with this that Amazon is just another sales channel. And as a brand, like I absolutely have to be positioned there. There's just really no way around it.

If you think about like how people are finding your website now or how you — like we’ll have other conversations here of things you can do to get people to your website. None of them include the searches that are happening on Amazon. It isn't like someone's going over to Amazon, like let's just kind of like walk through the sales process here. Someone is not going over to Amazon typing in like wine chiller and not finding what they're looking for, and then going, you know what, let me go try to find Angle 33 because they don't know who the heck you are.

So getting your product in front of people that are making those searches on Amazon, those people that are like in the buying process at that exact moment and they're looking to get something relatively quickly to solve that pain point of I just need a wine chiller now for the party that I have this coming weekend, and I need them to ship it to me in the Amazon prime because I waited till Wednesday like an idiot. And I need it now. This is like the type of person that's on Amazon. And if they type in wine chiller and see something that's unique, instead of buying the metal version or the plastic version, they might buy this because it is just so darn unique.

So the main point here is that it's searches and traffic and customers that you will never, ever in a million years get otherwise, does that makes sense?

Matt: Yeah absolutely.

Mike: So because of that, and that alone, I would definitely be looking at Amazon. And the reason that I say it's like the lowest hanging fruit in this case is because it's just so darn easy. I mean, there's already millions of people over there every day searching for this stuff. And in order for you to generate the same amount of visibility on your own website and the amount of additional work that that takes to actually do the customer service and do the shipping and fulfillment and everything else that goes along with that, including the advertising, whether it's Facebook ads or Google AdWords or influencer marketing, or whatever that might be, as a one man band, that's a lot of work.

I mean, as a company that has 15 people at it like us, it's still a lot of work. Like we spend way more time and money, and energy on our non-Amazon business than we ever do on our Amazon business. So, getting a listing up on Amazon, this is something we can kind of talk through, like the approach to this. But like getting it up there and selling on Amazon would be really, really easy.

And you could do it in a way where you're shipping in a wholesale amount of quantity like you see, you mentioned a case of six, you send six in the Amazon or whatever, just as a test. But like when those sell, like there is no interference from Matt. So you could be like at dinner or back in the shop making a customer's counter top or whatever and it just ships and you don't have to worry about it, versus when someone buys off your website, you've got to stop what you're doing and get it out that day because people are inpatients.

So yeah, and as far as the advertising on Amazon goes, it's also incredibly easy and a very low hanging fruit because you're bidding on search terms and just searches in general that people are making at that exact moment and they're looking to buy versus any type of other type of advertising you might do where it's more disruption advertising and it's tougher to convert them. So yeah, I mean without continuing to be pointing into the ground, I think Amazon will be a place I would look to first.

Matt: In your experience is Amazon; is it a good spot for as you got to call it kind of more unique gifts that like this where the search terms are a little bit tougher?

Mike: Yeah. So I mean I'd have to look at the exact search terms that would come up with something like this. What I'm looking at right now, I'm on, let's just kind of like walk through an exact example. Like I'm on thermals and customized thermals page here. This is under slash product slash thermals. I'm looking at this like black, oh there's a bunch of different colors here, but I'm looking at a black one that just holds like one wine bottle. What is this thing called? Like if I was like looking for this in a plastic or metal version, what would I search for on Amazon to find it?

Matt: Well yeah, I would say wine thermal or wine ice bucket probably is — when you type in wine chiller, you'd come up with a lot of fridges and that type of thing. So yeah, wine chiller, ice bucket would be probably the top two. I would say that would be my guess.

Mike: Okay. So let me do like wine ice bucket as a for instance. And so I'm just like, I'm on Amazon right now and you can do the same search or follow along with me, or do this afterwards. But I'm typing in wine ice bucket. And the first result here is just like a metal, like a $10 metal bucket. The next one's a clear plastic kind of bucket for 20 bucks. The third results, the one that matches what you're doing, the most similar, it's just a metal cylinder basically. And it's selling for $28. So what I would do now is look at Jungle Scout. So I'm going to pull up Jungle Scout and look at how many of that particular product are selling each month. And it's telling me that 125 of those are selling per month.

Another one that looks very similar to what you're doing here, this stainless steel went for 26.99 is selling 73. Let's look at another one here to see if we can find a higher — here's one now for $199. It's like one that stands up on — and those are selling 42. So those are actually moving even at $199. So what it tells me is that your product definitely can make inroads here. It wouldn't necessarily be like massive numbers because — well there is one here now I just found that it's only for 27 and is selling 925 a month. Let me just look at that one real quick here.

It's the Augie [ph] that's the 29.99 a month. So again, I mean basically it is going to be a little bit difficult because people are in their mind; they have a preconceived notion of what they're looking for mentally in their head that this is going to be a metal version of this. So you're trying to disrupt what they're doing by getting them to buy the concrete version. But, I think you could expect to sell 60 to 100 of them a month at your price point of like 70 bucks or something like that. Which probably I would think moves the needle for you a decent amount, and would be worth the effort of listing it on Amazon.

Matt: Yeah, that would absolutely help us out. And I would say at this point like I said, Amazon's intriguing for me just because we are to point where we need our sales to catch up with what we are able to produce. And that's kind of where we sit right at the moment. We have the ability to produce a lot more than we're actually selling.

Mike: Yeah, that's a good spot to be in some respects because Amazon typically ends up happening with people that we talked to about this type of thing, they get on Amazon, I warn them like in advance, be prepared for the volume. It’s like you're going to get a lot more sales than you ever expected, and then they're like, they end up telling me like I ran out of inventory because I just wasn't prepared for the number of sales.

So if you can sustain some, let's just call it 80 sales per month, averaging it out and that's something you can handle. I think that that's well within what Amazon could deliver here on this type of product at the price point you're at, because it is definitely going to be way more expensive than the average one on here. But I think it is unique and I think that because it's unique, it can definitely do well. And there's some factors that will come into it that will dictate your success.

The first will be just the types of reviews it gets. I mean, if it legitimately ends up being a five star type product that people are just loving, that's going to help your cause more than if you start getting down into the four and a half or four or three and a half star range. That's going to definitely hurt your ability to sell through it. But I mean having something unique on Amazon that really stands out can go a long way. And this is something I talk about on a lot of these Under the Hood segments is to makes sure that you have really good photography, like when you launch the product on Amazon. That people can really get a sense of what they're getting because this is a unique product that they're going to be skeptical about. If you can't deliver in pictures and really convey what it is.

And it's something that I am concerned for you. I'm looking at your website right now; I'm concerned that the website itself doesn't do that because there's only one photo of the product. I mean, there's, 1, 2, 3, 4, there's 12 total photos, but it's just different colors, right? So you're showing different colors here, but you're not showing the inside of the product or the bottom of it or the type of wine bottle that's in it. That doesn't really — there's no infographic here that shows the circumference of the hole that's in it, if there's a warranty or like really what the material is made out of, like a cross section of it or something that really in a picture tells you what it is. Now I can read this text that says it's handcrafted, protects your wine bottle or whatever.

And even in this text, skimming over it, I still don't see the word concrete here, the thing, the way that it's made. In fact it's not there at all as far as I can tell. So those types of things are like really important when you're trying to convey to somebody what is this product? Because if you think about it, if somebody walked into Bed Bath and Beyond or some type of store like that to buy this type of product, they can look at it and touch it and feel it and pick it up and look at the bottom and turn it upside down and kind of get a sense of the weight, and scratch the surface of it and see if leaves fingerprints, and you just a zillion things that happen in their mind without like consciously thinking about every one of those things. They get a really good feel for what it is that they're looking for versus this. It doesn't really pop off in my mind and explain what this product is, if that all makes sense.

Matt: Well, you bring up an issue that we’ve honestly had since the beginning, which is when people get these in their hands, they love them and buy them, but until they — a lot of times until they get it physically in their hands they just, like you said, it's very difficult. It's been difficult to portray exactly what it is without physically having them.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely can see that. I mean, there's a lot of products that we've dealt with that had the same thing. And the thing I would say is there's unique ways if you sit down and brainstorm with your team or maybe even past customers, ways to kind of convey that. Even with getting testimonials as one of the infographics like with three sentences that people might have said, things that they've said in short bursts. Like I can't believe like how awesome this thing is, or I'm trying to think of maybe like other things they might say about the material or this thing is like much more substantial than I ever thought it would be. Maybe you have it like a picture of this thing on a scale showing that this thing is eight pounds, because like the metal version, its counterpart is probably going to be a pound and a half.

Maybe it's showing a concrete truck pouring this thing is one of the pictures or something. Showing lifestyle photos is really important. Like showing this sitting on a kitchen counter in a very modern kitchen can make a big difference. Like all these things are really, really important aspects of getting people to understand like what they're getting. Like why am I going to pay $65 for this one when I can buy — you're basically double the price of this metal counterpart, which is fine.

I think that there's lots of people that would much rather have this one than the metal one without a doubt. Like I already know that people that would love this product in my own personal life. I mean, so it’s just a matter of conveying that in the photography because it's definitely like I'm not on Amazon.com anymore. Now I'm looking at just Angle33.com. And that's something that really jumps off in my mind. And it obviously is something that's come up with already internally because you just mentioned that that's been a problem for you guys.

Matt: Yeah and so with that being said, with our wholesale in the past which we’ve focused on most of the time, you do get – those are — wholesale customer generally you send samples to anyway. So they actually get to get to feel how it works. And off the website obviously somebody does get to get a sample and then take a look at it before they decide to order.  

Mike: Yeah. You could even potentially make a video. I was kind of reserved in saying that because it's a little bit more expensive and you're just kind of getting started. So I'm not sure you have the budget to get a video together. But I think that that could work wonders for this type of product where you have someone that's talking about the product. And the way to maybe approach that is to use an influencer. So you can go to something like Famebit.com. And that's actually the way that we approach it for a lot of our products now, especially our newer brands.

We just have them review the product for you. You pay them usually one to $300 for a video and you get a couple of things out of that. You get their audience, so they're going to talk about it in their own words to their audience. But you also can use that video on your own website and then just have that as like Angle 33 in the media kind of thing and have those videos on the page. And you can also, if you’re brand registered on Amazon, start adding those videos as well to your page. So I think that that could go a long way to help you kind of convey what makes your product different than everybody else.

Matt: And also you can kind of have a choice of the influencer when you go to that?

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. So what you do, it's Famebit.com, and you'll set up a campaign and you'll put some pictures up there of your product and describe it a little bit and then talk about what you're looking to get done in the video. And then they give you proposals. So you'll look at their proposals, you get to see who they are, their channels, look at other videos that they've done in the past, look at the size of their audience. And then you can either accept or reject it or go back and ask them to like basically re-propose a different price or other customizations to it.

And then once you accept it, they make the video and then deliver it to you for approval, and you can ask for changes even then, although you want to be careful what you ask for at that stage as you don't want to like piss them off because you don't want to have them completely redo the video and tell them something different then. You don't want to ask them to change something because you changed your mind at that phase I guess is a fair way. But if they missed something that you told them to do in the proposal, then they'll do it. And yeah then you had the video, and then they're going to promote that to their audience, which is awesome. And then that might actually get you some sales and that's actually one of the things I was going to mention any way.

This and also Houzz, H-O-U-Z-Z I think are two really good angles for you, because I think Houzz, this would fit perfectly on that platform. And I think this is something that influencer marketing can really convey, because it looks like a really awesome product. It really does. But again, it's tough for me to really tell how awesome it is because the pictures don't really show that angle and don't really necessarily show the texture of the concrete because there's no close up of it.

And I can't see inside like I said inside the cylinder, and I don't really know the size of the opening, like what size of wine bottle does it actually fit. Some wine bottles are a little bit different. Do I put ice in there with this or not, do I put this thing in the refrigerator first and the concrete gets cold, then I put this thing in there. There's like a lot of questions I would have even if some of these are stupid questions, like I was just thinking of all the stupid things that people would ask because we get a lot of these types of things ourselves. So if you can answer all that with the photography and or a video, it could go a long way.

Matt: So certainly a lot better if we can figure out a way to do that like you said, because there’s some of that is in the text but I’m assuming that people just don’t read that much of that text.

Mike: Yeah, I mean I've only been able to — because I'm talking to you as I'm doing this. So I would say that that's kind of the bar that you have on a website is — because I can comprehend some reading mom talking at the exact same time. But it's tough. Like, I mean, most people can't consume bullet points or a paragraph like at the exact same time they're talking fluidly like this.

And the reality is that's the same speed that people in the same capacity that someone consumes a webpage in. They're just scrolling, they’re just quickly scrolling. Everyone's attention spans have shortened so much. It's absolutely ridiculous. Even on something like Amazon, we've proven that people don't read even things that I thought that they always read, which is the title. Like I've always thought that whatever you put in the actual title, people will actually read that because it's big, bold, black text and it's like really hard to miss.

But even that people don't read it. So we've really notched up our game on the photography, especially on Amazon, but also our own website to kind of call out these things. And if you look at something like ColorIt.com and go to one of our coloring books, I would highly recommend that, and scroll down the page and see how we've handled that on ColorIt. Because we have a similar thing where it's tough to really understand the quality of our books without getting money in your hand. So we actually call out feature by feature including like the hardback covers and the spiral binding and the fact that they're perforated pages, and it's artist quality paper and they’re hand-drawn designs.

All that is called out like one by one a little bit down below the fold. And that's in addition to all the imagery that we have above the fold. Again, just like the more imagery you can put there, the better because people will scroll down and see those call outs and then they read the three word headline. And that they do consume because like they can quickly, even while they're thinking about seven other things while they're browsing the website can consume that because they're seeing a picture of a hardback cover and it says hardback cover and they're like, okay, this book has a hardback cover.

So I mean you could do a similar thing as you scroll down your page that you're talking about the construction of this thing. This is poured concrete. It's got XYZ finish on it. It's the color is like impossible to rub off because it's a dye that's inside the concrete. It's strong construction. It's hard to break or whatever, fits most wine bottles, it fits most industry wine bottles, like good for white and red, whatever it might be.

And you probably already know the top five to 10 questions that people are asking you anyway. So I would start there and basically, okay, what are the — because we used to get the same questions over and over, like does your book, how do I get the pages out of it? Well, they're perforated? They didn't read it. So you put that picture on there. It's like, well, what's this thing made of? It's made of concrete. How do you make a picture of it showing it's poured concrete? Just kind of answer those questions in picture basically.

Matt: Actually you mentioned Houzz, which we do sell on Houzz. And I was curious for you is Houzz similar to Amazon in any way where you can actually move up in their rankings?

Mike: It is. I know a little bit less about that because I haven't been on Houzz myself for a couple of years now since Grant took over cuttingboard.com. I know that we still sell on Houzz and it's a good channel for us, but I'm not as familiar with like the rankings and all that. I just know it's a great platform for anything home and kitchen or bath, or anything in the home really. So I definitely think that this product would do well there. But as far as like how to rank higher, I couldn't tell you those steps just like I could on Amazon.

Matt: Yeah. We've had decent success on Houzz, but again still there’s a lot of improvement there.

Mike: Yeah and it's all a matter of — again, I mean I get it. So you're a one man band or [inaudible 00:32:00] or whatever and doing a bunch of other things. And this isn't at a point where it's your livelihood yet. So I mean that's why I always like suggest like taking the steps that are easiest. And I really believe that just getting on Amazon is that thing for you? Like even if you don't touch anything on your own website — because you have an awesome product. I mean I can kind of tell what this thing is. Again, I kind of grew up in the construction industry and stuff, and I can kind of envision what this thing would look like in my hand even though again, I think the photography is still an issue. But I just think it's a cool product that's unique.

It's not something that I really see out there typically. It's not what I think of when I think of a wine chiller bucket or whatever. I think of metal or plastic ones. So having something unique like this, it's going to really appeal to like an interior designer type person that has like a very modern style house. And somebody that also was fluid that has the money to spend on something like this is going to like love this type of thing, like absolutely like love this.

And I think that it definitely could resonate well on Amazon because they're searching for something there and not necessarily finding what they want. And having something unique there I think is going to be an awesome proposition for you. And it's just the buyers are already there. And so from a work aspect to reward ratio for you, it just seems like a slam dunk.

And that's a wrap for now. As you guys know, this will be a two parter. If you want to go to the show notes for this particular episode, you can go to EcomCrew.com/128. We'd love to hear from you. I want to thank Matt for coming on and doing this again with us. We love these Under the Hood segments. If you want to be on your very own Under the Hood, go to EcomCrew.com/UndertheHood to signup today. We look forward to having you on a future episode of the EcomCrew Podcast. And until the next one folks, happy selling, and we'll talk to you then.